Comments on: Ramblings on Women, Computers and the PHP world http://www.khankennels.com/blog/index.php/archives/2006/10/05/ramblings-on-women-computers-and-the-php-world/ Lig's accidentally overheard ramblings on MySQL/PHP and life in general Wed, 23 Feb 2011 16:51:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Sara Golemon http://www.khankennels.com/blog/index.php/archives/2006/10/05/ramblings-on-women-computers-and-the-php-world/comment-page-1/#comment-19550 Sara Golemon Thu, 05 Oct 2006 19:19:32 +0000 http://www.khankennels.com/blog/index.php/archives/2006/10/05/ramblings-on-women-computers-and-the-php-world/#comment-19550 You're forgetting one important thing: Short bathroom lines. In all seriousness, I do tend to scan through the lineups for conferences I'll be attending because I do tend to be either the only female, or one of two (three tops). But why rely on anecdotal evidence... Let's start with ZendCon06 ( http://zendcon06.kbconferences.com/speakers_list.php ) coming up next month.... If I'm right and Nandika is a woman (It's hard enough guessing with some english names...), then that makes a grand total of two of us that'll be on stage. And my only session is directly opposite so I won't even be able to pop in! Then there's the Internation PHP Conference in Frankfurt ( http://entwickler.com/konferenzen/planer/ipc06_sessionplaner.html )... hrmmm Me... Steph (who I'm dying to meet finally), and..... Yep, two once again. Or how about next door in France that same week ( http://www.afup.org/pages/forumphp2006/sessions.php ).... Bzzzt.... Y chromosomes, the lot of 'em. Looking back: The php|works schedule is still up ( http://hades.phparch.com/ceres/public/page/index.php/works::schedule ) and that was a goose-egg for the fairer sex. ((I was originally slated to show, but had passport issues)) Looking further back at php|tek ( http://www.phparch.com/tek/tek_schedule.php ) there were two of us there, though I never did make it to Caroline's presentation... I just can't get excited about SDO.... So yeah, my experience says that the observations made in these articles are absolutely true. The vast majority of speakers are male and the majority of them are white. But I really, honestly don't think that's a problem. Women aren't being excluded from these events, we're just not bothering to show up. In a few cases I've seen the proposal stacks that come to conference organizers and the fact is, a consistent proportion show a masculine name along the top. It's not just conferences either, I worked in HR for six years and saw more than a couple resume stacks (during some periods, these stacks were hundreds of applicants high). I've also seen and compiled affirmative action statistics on job applications and both of these sources have told me the same thing: IT jobs attract male applicants (I'll let you recover from the shock before I continue). If change is important, it needs to start in the schools. Math should not be a bad word in a young girl's vocabulary. Science diciplines should include more than just biology. (In my senior year, my Calculous class had 20+ guys, and 4 girls. My Physicals class was 20+ to 3). ((Yes I know those are rediculously small class sizes for a public school and that's the other problem.... underacheivement is way too cool to be good)). You’re forgetting one important thing: Short bathroom lines.

In all seriousness, I do tend to scan through the lineups for conferences I’ll be attending because I do tend to be either the only female, or one of two (three tops).

But why rely on anecdotal evidence…

Let’s start with ZendCon06 ( http://zendcon06.kbconferences.com/speakers_list.php ) coming up next month…. If I’m right and Nandika is a woman (It’s hard enough guessing with some english names…), then that makes a grand total of two of us that’ll be on stage. And my only session is directly opposite so I won’t even be able to pop in!

Then there’s the Internation PHP Conference in Frankfurt ( http://entwickler.com/konferenzen/planer/ipc06_sessionplaner.html )… hrmmm Me… Steph (who I’m dying to meet finally), and….. Yep, two once again.

Or how about next door in France that same week ( http://www.afup.org/pages/forumphp2006/sessions.php )…. Bzzzt…. Y chromosomes, the lot of ‘em.

Looking back: The php|works schedule is still up ( http://hades.phparch.com/ceres/public/page/index.php/works::schedule ) and that was a goose-egg for the fairer sex. ((I was originally slated to show, but had passport issues))

Looking further back at php|tek ( http://www.phparch.com/tek/tek_schedule.php ) there were two of us there, though I never did make it to Caroline’s presentation… I just can’t get excited about SDO….

So yeah, my experience says that the observations made in these articles are absolutely true. The vast majority of speakers are male and the majority of them are white. But I really, honestly don’t think that’s a problem. Women aren’t being excluded from these events, we’re just not bothering to show up. In a few cases I’ve seen the proposal stacks that come to conference organizers and the fact is, a consistent proportion show a masculine name along the top.

It’s not just conferences either, I worked in HR for six years and saw more than a couple resume stacks (during some periods, these stacks were hundreds of applicants high). I’ve also seen and compiled affirmative action statistics on job applications and both of these sources have told me the same thing:

IT jobs attract male applicants (I’ll let you recover from the shock before I continue).

If change is important, it needs to start in the schools. Math should not be a bad word in a young girl’s vocabulary. Science diciplines should include more than just biology. (In my senior year, my Calculous class had 20+ guys, and 4 girls. My Physicals class was 20+ to 3). ((Yes I know those are rediculously small class sizes for a public school and that’s the other problem…. underacheivement is way too cool to be good)).

]]> By: Lukas http://www.khankennels.com/blog/index.php/archives/2006/10/05/ramblings-on-women-computers-and-the-php-world/comment-page-1/#comment-19496 Lukas Thu, 05 Oct 2006 15:50:23 +0000 http://www.khankennels.com/blog/index.php/archives/2006/10/05/ramblings-on-women-computers-and-the-php-world/#comment-19496 I generally think conference organizers go by mostly the same bunch often giving the same talks over and over. I have been guitly of riding this fact myself. And I understand their reasoning. Every new person has the potential for risk in that they may not be reliable or simply not a good speaker. Since every conf only has a few regulars its often enough to rehash slightly updated established talks. However, this means its kinda hard for new people to get in, regardless of their sex, ethnicity or background. As for women in IT. There was a day when women ruled IT. That was back when keyboards were considered to be modern day typewriters and therefore it was a women thing. Then men started to move into the field and one by one pushed women out (or women ran screaming from the men that were attracted by keyboards). Anyways I do not think that quotas is a good thing. I took particular note of your example of how men help women on IRC. I think that is part of the problem. Women in IT either get overlooked or people help them every step of the way (if you ever really need help, try joining a channel with a female nick and make sure to make it clear you are a women). Solving problems by having people point you in the general direction instead of handing things to you is one of the key ways to learn and to gain selfesteem. So I see this helping women with a huge grain of sailt. Actually I think its all wrong. Women need to be treated equal. Same for any of the varitions of non white men. However, they need to be treated truely equal. The rest will come, or it will not. But thats upto all the non white men at that point. I generally think conference organizers go by mostly the same bunch often giving the same talks over and over. I have been guitly of riding this fact myself. And I understand their reasoning. Every new person has the potential for risk in that they may not be reliable or simply not a good speaker. Since every conf only has a few regulars its often enough to rehash slightly updated established talks. However, this means its kinda hard for new people to get in, regardless of their sex, ethnicity or background.

As for women in IT. There was a day when women ruled IT. That was back when keyboards were considered to be modern day typewriters and therefore it was a women thing. Then men started to move into the field and one by one pushed women out (or women ran screaming from the men that were attracted by keyboards). Anyways I do not think that quotas is a good thing. I took particular note of your example of how men help women on IRC. I think that is part of the problem. Women in IT either get overlooked or people help them every step of the way (if you ever really need help, try joining a channel with a female nick and make sure to make it clear you are a women). Solving problems by having people point you in the general direction instead of handing things to you is one of the key ways to learn and to gain selfesteem. So I see this helping women with a huge grain of sailt. Actually I think its all wrong.

Women need to be treated equal. Same for any of the varitions of non white men. However, they need to be treated truely equal. The rest will come, or it will not. But thats upto all the non white men at that point.

]]> By: William Candillon http://www.khankennels.com/blog/index.php/archives/2006/10/05/ramblings-on-women-computers-and-the-php-world/comment-page-1/#comment-19486 William Candillon Thu, 05 Oct 2006 15:21:45 +0000 http://www.khankennels.com/blog/index.php/archives/2006/10/05/ramblings-on-women-computers-and-the-php-world/#comment-19486 I have to say that during the Google Summer of Code, I was surprised to see how much the PHP community was welcoming. A lot of people brought time to help me and everybody is very nice. Even if guess that this good spirit is typical in any open source organization, people need to know that so they don't hesitate to get involved in a such community. I have to say that during the Google Summer of Code, I was surprised to see how much the PHP community was welcoming.
A lot of people brought time to help me and everybody is very nice.
Even if guess that this good spirit is typical in any open source organization, people need to know that so they don’t hesitate to get involved in a such community.

]]> By: Markus Wolff http://www.khankennels.com/blog/index.php/archives/2006/10/05/ramblings-on-women-computers-and-the-php-world/comment-page-1/#comment-19464 Markus Wolff Thu, 05 Oct 2006 13:56:04 +0000 http://www.khankennels.com/blog/index.php/archives/2006/10/05/ramblings-on-women-computers-and-the-php-world/#comment-19464 Regarding your words about the PHP community: Amen, sister :-) On the main topic, I don't see lack of diversity in terms of "not enough minorities" as a problem. The low percentage of female speakers at conferences reflects the overall lower percentage of females in the industry, and that's really all there is to it, IMHO. And regarding male white guys, I'm sure if you visited a conference in Asia or Africa you'd see an apparent lack of those in comparison to the numbers of local boys. Don't get me wrong, diversity is a good thing - but on professional conferences the emphasis should be more on the quality of the talks, not on who the speaker is. And who's a minority and who's not really is a question of perspective :-) CU Markus Regarding your words about the PHP community: Amen, sister :-)

On the main topic, I don’t see lack of diversity in terms of “not enough minorities” as a problem. The low percentage of female speakers at conferences reflects the overall lower percentage of females in the industry, and that’s really all there is to it, IMHO. And regarding male white guys, I’m sure if you visited a conference in Asia or Africa you’d see an apparent lack of those in comparison to the numbers of local boys.

Don’t get me wrong, diversity is a good thing – but on professional conferences the emphasis should be more on the quality of the talks, not on who the speaker is. And who’s a minority and who’s not really is a question of perspective :-)

CU
Markus

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